CBR 2010 Rules - Draft

Discuss ideas for the 2010 Cannonball

Postby bagel » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:38 pm

Regardless of how you set up your scooter, you will want to keep your wrenching time as minimal as possible. Swapping an engine every night? I would laugh my ass off if someone actually did that and brought 9 engines with them! Every minute you spend wrenching is a minute less you'll spend sleeping, relaxing, studying the route for the next day, or otherwise preparing for the road ahead. Time management is crucial 24/7 on the Cannonball, both on and off the road.
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Postby old as dirt » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:41 pm

bagel wrote:Regardless of how you set up your scooter, you will want to keep your wrenching time as minimal as possible. Swapping an engine every night? I would laugh my ass off if someone actually did that and brought 9 engines with them! Every minute you spend wrenching is a minute less you'll spend sleeping, relaxing, studying the route for the next day, or otherwise preparing for the road ahead. Time management is crucial 24/7 on the Cannonball, both on and off the road.


riding 350 miles a day at 50 mph average is 7 hrs that leaves 17 hrs left in the day. lets say even 10 hrs riding you still have 14 hrs left and 8 hrs sleep balance is now down to 6 hrs 1hr for breakfast and 1 for dinner down to 4 hrs lets remove 1 hr for showers and reorganiztion of gear 3 hrs left still too much time left for wrenching. I feel the max anyone should be able to spend working after hrs is 2 max. after that you start the next day finishing your work and then riding. This should be a test of you and your machine nad only your machine the frame and engine you start with should be the one you ride with and finish with. now if you pull the cyl and replace the piston and rings thats cool. no problem. repairing tires and such no problem fixing broken wires no problem. but you do it on the clock except for the free time of 2 hrs.

lemans and other endurance series you make repairs while on the clock. some even only limit to after your daily check in 10 min for repiars before being put into impounds (Parc Ferme) till the next morning then you get 10 min again before your start time and doing the repiars on you time clock again.

these are just some thoughts and while not for this years event should be considered for 2012.
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Postby AirborneVespa » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:19 am

feb31st wrote:i believe, mr. bagel rebuilt his engine over night in 2006? ::bow::


That was me, in a parking lot, and won my class the next day.

I think Bagel rebuilt part or all at POC in Cleveland? Or was that someone else?

That said, if any rider is stopped at the side of the road waving their arms, or if a rider is down, any rider passing by should absolutely stop to provide emergency assistance, and/or get them in touch with their support team.



In the CORSA the rules regarding riders on the side of the road:

1: If you are on the side of the road and do not need help you should make every effort to wave oncoming riders past so they do not think they need to stop.

2: If you are on the side of the road waving your arms to flag a rider due to injury or a dead cell phone, or some other emergency and they ignore you then that rider is penalized.

If they wave you to stop, then you stop and help them as much as you can. If it requires a time loss on your part then an estimated amount of time you stopped to help would be reduced from your final time. This does not mean you get to stop and help them change a tire or diagnose their motor problems. If you choose to do that then you lose the time. Period. If, however, you stop to let them use your phone or help them in a medical emergency that time is reduced.

Scooterists on the side of the road should not wave people down because they're lost or they are hot or have a blister or can't make their bike run. They should also be cognizant of oncoming racers and turn and wave them past if there is not a problem.

Scooters who pass by a scooterist who is actively waving someone down for help get penalized 1 hour.


Of course on the CORSA GPS was banned which I know would not go over well on the Cannonball, but it was very interesting, especially on single lane unnamed back roads in VA where everyone was riding in circles trying to read maps and printed directions. It added to the fun.
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Postby starreem » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:37 pm

AirborneVespa wrote:Of course on the CORSA GPS was banned which I know would not go over well on the Cannonball, but it was very interesting, especially on single lane unnamed back roads in VA where everyone was riding in circles trying to read soaking wet, limp paper maps and printed directions. It added to the fun.


There, I fixed it for you.
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Postby AirborneVespa » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:42 am

starreem wrote:
AirborneVespa wrote:Of course on the CORSA GPS was banned which I know would not go over well on the Cannonball, but it was very interesting, especially on single lane unnamed back roads in VA where everyone was riding in circles trying to read soaking wet, limp paper maps and printed directions. It added to the fun.


There, I fixed it for you.


But you didn't change the "fun" part :wink:
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Postby 4n6iscool » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:57 pm

Honestly I am being put off by all this talk of limiting wrench time to only 2 hrs after a stage is completed. What next, you can only touch your bike without any assistance from anyone else. I think that is really STUPID. Yes, I am preparing myself for some standard mechanics but if something happens to my bike and i don't have the know how to fix it I will ask for help. I have heard stories of past cannonballs about how great the camaraderie was between the riders, assisting and pushing each other to try and get everyone to finish the race (and isn't that what it is all about!). Why is this edition being different?
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Postby smooothrider » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:37 pm

:roll:

4n6iscool

Sooo who is going to sit and time each rider as they arrive at the hotel to make sure you only spend 2 hours of wrench time? I wouldn't worry to much about this becoming a rule. :wink:
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Postby AirborneVespa » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:33 am

Mea Culpa:

Since 2006 I have stated that I won my class the day after building my motor in the parking lot. I based that off the write-up of the day that had a misspelling that I assumed mean "first" but actually meant "third."

The official results state that Patrick won the class and I came in third.

No disrespect was meant to Patrick. It was a mistake on my part.

But rebuilding an entire engine with a sack full of tools in a parking lot and coming in third is still bad ass. :P
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Postby AirborneVespa » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:34 am

4n6iscool wrote:Why is this edition being different?


It won't be. I think that is a suggestion that will be soundly defeated.
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Postby OopsClunkThud » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:04 am

While all the continued talk on rules is fun at this point it would really only apply to 2012. The rules for 2010 were updated on Sep 20th 2009 to reflect the changes brought up to that point.

I don't really think there's a point in reopening them as having them fixed a year out let's everyone start planning.
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Postby 4n6iscool » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:47 pm

AirborneVespa wrote:
4n6iscool wrote:Why is this edition being different?


It won't be. I think that is a suggestion that will be soundly defeated.


Cool.
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Postby bagel » Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:45 pm

4n6iscool wrote:Honestly I am being put off by all this talk of limiting wrench time to only 2 hrs after a stage is completed. What next, you can only touch your bike without any assistance from anyone else. I think that is really STUPID.

I agree wholeheartedly... limiting wrenching time would be ridiculous and entirely impossible to regulate. Having to spend time wrenching during the ride does not give you an advantage, it's an albatross around your neck. Like I said, it cuts into valuable time you could spend on other things, like calculating and submitting your times for the current day, reviewing the route for the next day, getting some quick but much deserved R&R, etc. There is no limit on the amount of time you can wrench on your bike, but if you pull an all-nighter working on your bike and your support truck is ready to leave without you when 8:00am rolls around, you should seriously think about sucking it up and packing it in. If you can't get the thing going, you don't want to be left there stranded, or force your support truck to wait for you, which could put your other teammates at a severe disadvantage, if they have problems down the road.

old as dirt wrote:riding 350 miles a day at 50 mph average is 7 hrs that leaves 17 hrs left in the day. lets say even 10 hrs riding you still have 14 hrs left and 8 hrs sleep balance is now down to 6 hrs 1hr for breakfast and 1 for dinner down to 4 hrs lets remove 1 hr for showers and reorganiztion of gear 3 hrs left still too much time left for wrenching.

It all looks fine and dandy on paper, but I assure you that things are a lot different once you get on the road, and time is nowhere near as plentiful as you thought it would be.

old as dirt wrote:lemans and other endurance series you make repairs while on the clock. some even only limit to after your daily check in 10 min for repiars before being put into impounds (Parc Ferme) till the next morning then you get 10 min again before your start time and doing the repiars on you time clock again.

You're comparing apples to oranges. The Le Mans is a 24 hour corporate-sponsored race, complete with high stakes and valuable prizes. The Scooter Cannonball Run is a privately organized and funded long-distance endurance ride. The sooner you stop thinking of the Cannonball as a race, the better you'll understand what it's all about. ;)
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Postby bagel » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:01 pm

AirborneVespa wrote:
feb31st wrote:i believe, mr. bagel rebuilt his engine over night in 2006? ::bow::

That was me, in a parking lot, and won my class the next day.

I think Bagel rebuilt part or all at POC in Cleveland? Or was that someone else?

Yep, I pulled an all-nighter rebuilding my motor at POC, after it seized for the second time. I pulled the crank, replaced the seals and bearings, installed a new Malossi top end, and got it all back together by 10:00am the next morning. However, I was thoroughly exhausted and quite literally delirious from sleep deprivation by then (and I had probably overdosed on energy drinks by then too), so I was in no condition to ride, and I had to throw my bike on the trailer and sit out day 8 sleeping in the car. I did finish the ride the next day under my own power though, breaking in the new top end in a baptism by fire all the way. It took me 14 1/2 hours and I was literally the last one to finish, coming in behind the support trucks, but I finished!

So, the moral of this story is: don't ever think that you're fully prepared for the Cannonball... it will chew you up and spit you out before you know it. But you'll still have a hell of a lot of fun doing it! :D
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Postby old as dirt » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:51 pm

bagel wrote:The sooner you stop thinking of the Cannonball as a race, the better you'll understand what it's all about. ;)


IT's not? then why have points and declare a winner. Why not just call it a gatherin and a ride across country.
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Postby 4n6iscool » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:08 pm

old as dirt wrote:
bagel wrote:The sooner you stop thinking of the Cannonball as a race, the better you'll understand what it's all about. ;)


IT's not? then why have points and declare a winner. Why not just call it a gatherin and a ride across country.


That's simple, to have a bit of fun.
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